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[Music] KaTania Brown: We are all human being first. And I think that's the one thing that that's also always missing is we're all human, human beings first, human beings. We're all in this planet together. Whether we like it or not. And if I see you that way first then it’s hard to be other. [Music] Arielle Nobile: Welcome, welcome to episode one of the Belonging in the USA Podcast, we recorded this first season, all the way back in the Winter, Spring of 2021. And as we get into postproduction on all this, these conversations, still feel timeless and relevant. One major shift that has happened since recording all these is that I'm thinking of dropping in the USA part of the title and just calling it Belonging Stories from our Neighbors. My original impulse when creating the documentary series and now this podcast was about global “citizenry” one world one humanity consciousness, you'll probably hear me talk about this over and over and all the episodes of this first season. We'll be dropping a new episode every week, so please subscribe, rate us if you love it and share with your friends, this first episode is a conversation between me and KaTania Brown my lovely assistant and confidant. We get into the impulse for this whole podcast experiment and some insight into who we are that we hope you will feel inspired by and will make you want to listen to future episodes as well. A little background on Kat. She left corporate America in 2019 and started her companies Virtually Possible 365 and Digital Footprint Consulting, which both allow her to channel her passion to be of service. She has over 25 years of professional business experience in marketing, social media recruiting and administrative support, and degrees in marketing and Healthcare Administration management. We're going to link to her websites in the show notes as well as some of the amazing journals that she has self-published to help with everything from caregiving to food accountability to empowering young black girls. From the moment Kat and I first spoke on the phone. We've been in deep conversation, and I know we have both grown from our connection. I also want to say that producing this podcast feels vulnerable and edgy in a way that's hard to put into words. I am so accustomed to being behind the camera and cutting out my own voice and having that sort of level of anonymity. But even in the process of listening to these interviews I've been facing myself in new ways. Overall, I'm super excited to bring you all the guests from this first season where I get to talk with entrepreneurs, educators’ authors theatre artists filmmakers and more. Here we go. So here we are, me Arielle Nobile, and the fabulous KaTania Brown, coming from the Midwest to your ears. Thank you, Kat, for being my first guest here and what we're kind of going to do for you all today. So, some of you may know, I am the creator of the Belonging USA Stories from Our Neighbors documentary series Kat is my fabulous assistants, I was gonna say jack-iss but that's not a word but Jill of all trades, who helps. KaTania Brown: I guess we'd love to really about to say something else. Wow! Arielle: No, but we were doing Facebook Lives for the longest time, and actually the first one we did back in 2019. I interviewed Kat, a Facebook Live and unfortunately we had a sound or see that we did not know what we were recording, so we wanted to repeat that because I really want you all to get to know how amazing, inspirational and powerful Kat is as a person as I know her and just also notice that she's person helping as my support system, along this journey of creativity and fumbling and coping. She reminds me to breathe the lot and take things one at a time and my mantra last year was good as good enough, which really, really helped through this crazy time. So, how is your spirit today? KaTania Brown: It actually is good to get some good rest. I have a few projects that I'm working through, but I feel really good today. I feel calm and even, and one second at a time. Arielle Nobile: What do you think folks who are going to listen to this can expect from this podcast? KaTania Brown: I believe that, in all honesty, it's it’s a process, and it's a journey, and it will evoke thought. If anything, I really hope that people come away with a more empathetic, spirit, because, in light of events in the past, like four or five years, we've seen so much negativity and divisiveness. And that's a word that I think we've been using a lot recently is divisiveness and there needs to be more of a healing and a reckoning. And also, just understanding that we have we do really have more things in common that we don't. So, I think that those that really listen to this will have some very enlightened conversations or listened to some really enlightened conversations with people from all walks of life. Arielle Nobile: This is why it's so brilliant and you just said that so well. I couldn't have even said it. So, you helped me with my legacy films but you also helped me with the blog in the USA project. When you first heard about it and you first heard about that phrase belonging in the USA, what did that mean to you, what does that mean to, what is it a book for you and what does that spark in your? KaTania: What I think I initially thought was, you know, what does that really mean, as far as belonging. And then as I got to know you more. And we've shared a lot of deep conversations just personally and professionally, about the world. It's interesting that it is a white woman who's asking this question. And, as a black woman who is, you know saying so many things in my 32 years of life, but also as the daughter of two parents who were born into the segregated south. I know that they have seen some of the worst that humanity has to offer to each other, and it's, it's hard to wrap your head around sometimes how you do belong. When people view so differently. I think the past few years, overall has made me realize that it's, it's hard to belong. When people don't want to accept you. It's a challenge to find people who say that they really are open, and they really are not because they still have biases and they still have their ways about them, and they may have grown up in this environment that taught them to be there, that they were better than others just because of their skin, but belonging to me, or, it still is trying to find the way where you're equal, and I think I'm a contributing member of society. I get up and I, you know work every day and I don't have the white picket fence, but I live in this suburban neighborhood with all walks of life, and have a little cute dog, and still, I don't feel like I'm alone. I still, oftentimes feel like an outsider, and especially like driving through my neighborhood is a predominantly white, it's, it's, it's one of the more affluent neighborhoods, or, you know communities within the suburban area of Detroit. and, yeah, I still feel that anxiety when the police are riding behind me, and I know I have insurance, I know everything about me is, is cleaning up to code, so to speak but still I'm. I still feel that tenseness when I shouldn't feel, and it will be nice to never have to feel that way. So, again, I'd like to honestly say I've alone. I don't. I still don't belong. I enjoyed the fact that you are even teaching me. I joked about this with other boyfriends that you're probably blacker than me because you're more well-read of topics that I have not even tackled and because you carry the pain of your ancestors. It's hard to watch the brutality that they have had to endure. And even in reading some things. It just makes you cry. So, I think it is oftentimes made me so uncomfortable that I refuse to allow that in, but I need to know that I need to know where I came from. In order to know where I'm going. So, in working with you, you, I think to have taught me something so I think that when people are open to learning from each other than that will make you feel more like you belong. Because you share something serious, that you can grow from and allow yourself to be open to whatever that may lead to, and its vulnerability. Arielle: Amen. And I think, I mean there's so much in what you just said that hits home and is so true and how, you know the preconceptions we have and the perceptions we have both ourselves and others and stereotypes and histories and I mean similar so I Yes I have read a lot about the Black and African American experience in this country, and yet at the same token, it took me until my late 20s to watch Schindler’s List. I could not watch those kinds of movies about the Jewish experience because of what you're talking about, it was just too close to home I had nightmares as a child about, you know, being the Nazis coming into, you know, it was just, I learned very young, about the Holocaust, and met Holocaust survivor so that was a part of my trauma that was passed down and so I had a little bit of more resistance from I'd never seen the sound of music. Okay, just giving you that I've never seen that movie. Yeah so, I think it's, it's natural. Because we feel so deeply, and we're both really sensitive people to not want to overdo it. For me the best ways I learned is through this through conversation with people of all walks of life, like you're saying and real conversation not superficial not, you know, one of the things I appreciate about you is that you just tell me the truth about things I hope and feel like you can, that there's not a lot of, there's not this sort of politeness, that's, [KaTania] I don't do fluff and filler, I mean, I realized that we work together. And yes, you could say I'm done with you. Oh, I guess I pushed the envelope to the floor. Arielle Nobile: So yeah, I'm going to stop talking and let you ask me the question. KaTania: Well, Arielle now that I believe I've answered that question, or at least given you some idea. What does the phrase belonging in the USA evoke for you? Arielle: Well, I have been asking that question to audiences and all kinds of people for the past several years. And the question itself was inspired sparked out of the last administration, out of a time in this country where it seemed like it was at a fever pitch, but the ultimate bigger picture is this country is made up of the entire world. And so, everyone in the world belongs here, period. If you exist, you belong. And it's just making me think about just mass immigration migration forced migration all over the world that's happening everywhere. What's gonna happen over time in the next 100 years or 200 years, we're not going to be able to be so identified by a race, or one culture or anything, it's just going to be this tapestry of culture and languages and colors and communities, and that is beautiful. And if we can not try to make everybody the same. But instead find commonalities find common ground and also then be curious about the parts of somebody else's cultural relationships, ways of doing things that you don't understand, like, I love to approach. Pretty much everyone I meet like they're a foreign country. And if I look at them as if I'm a traveler and this is your world and I want to get to know your world. Like, that's amazing and then we find that we have some deep down, basic human like synergy synchronicities belonging is important, and a sense of belonging, I think it's like Bernie talks about it's a basic need to feel that we belong. So, I want to say and it could be so wrong but I want to say that most people at least find one person or one place or one experience that they're having as a child that helps them cultivate that idea that sense of belonging, it could be one time for me a lot of times it was the families I babysat for, I felt so I was always such a kindred spirit with little children especially babies and just I felt belonging when I was with those babies, making them laugh, that was a time about also singing for me in the Hebrew school choir that was a, an incredible experience of belonging. So, what about you when you were a child, where and when did you feel you belonged? KaTania: Well, I would have to say, I've always been comfortable in my skin and I, I was an only child by parents moved into a predominantly white neighborhood, which I think was great for me, again, considering they came from the south. They typically want to stay amongst their own, quote unquote, and by allowing me to have exposure, I think it definitely made me who I am today where I continue to be comfortable in my skin. But, as, as a child and I can't say that I experienced racism or blatant racism in the sense that, you know, I felt less than. I always felt that I was equal to anyone else. And my parents never sheltered me, or never taught me things we talked about, you know, racism and the things that they had seen and experienced but [Arielle] from what age. [KaTania] I'm six. [Arielle] when did you become aware of race if you were one of the only is or the only?[KaTania] I will say that when they [her parents] first moved to Detroit. We stayed in an all-black neighborhood. So, there were no white people in the neighborhood. And then when we did move of like what's happening here. There's no one else that kind of looks like me. And we had a conversation. And it was, you know, we want better. This is the house that we bought. And we want better for you as far as school is concerned. And I will say that one place that I have probably felt the most comfortable and and belonged, was when I first went to Mexico. I went to Cancun, with my best friend and a group of women, and I was like a goddess down there. That, my friends were like, “What in the hell?”, “what's going on.” Arielle: So, where do you feel the greatest sense of belonging, these days in your life, especially during this pandemic when we're in the midst of an extreme circumstance. KaTania: Wow! Let's see these days. As you are aware, things that have happened recently, you know, the passing my mom and it's, it's very, the club or the group that I am now a part of, or the community that I'm now part of is those that have lost a mother. And I'm finding that there is a lot of community within that topic area. There are people and I've posted on Facebook, some of the things that have bothered me on a given day, last weekend was 90 days since my mom had passed, and I just felt compelled to say something or to kind of let that out, and I just began like writing on Facebook about, you know how that whole thing has happened and how I thought I didn't want to, you know, move forward and here I am today and yes I do have bad days, but at the same time, I'm documenting my wins, and I am writing positives at the end of my day. And the book that you gave me has been very, very helpful by Shelby Forsythia, by the way we were going to have her as a guest on the podcast, which I think she's amazing. But I had a few people reach out to me privately. One had lost her mom. Three years ago, and she gave me something to read. And then she said that helped her, and then someone else, you know, reached out and gave me something that worked for them. So, it's, it's a strange community to be a part of right now, but I know that I'm not alone. And each person that takes the time to send me a note or give me something that works for them. It helps it lifts me up even more. So, I would say right now that that's the community that I'm a part of that I feel where I belong, the most right. Right now, these things, or Arielle: I think that's the key what you're talking about is really, it's not even, I'm sure the information is helpful, but it's also the, just the fact of having other people in the same situation or a similar situation or understanding that the roller coaster of emotions I mean we've talked about this, we just don't, as a society in general in the United States, maybe because we are so large and so diverse. We just don't do death very well we don't really talk about death we don't acknowledge it, we have a certain time limit for even how we expect other people to show up after death and, you know, grieving and we don't. We can't it's like we can't come to consensus about anything spiritual or afterlife or anything so it's just better not to talk about it, it's like, well, that doesn't really help when you're going through stuff so no and I came to this conclusion, a few years ago once when I was grieving. I mean, a bunch of losses that deaths, I think that sort of came to me that we're always, if you look around there's walking on the street in everybody's life there's probably some something major that they're grieving and celebrating all at once and that, that's what life is, we are constantly grieving and celebrating in the same bucket that's why one of my favorite sort of emotions if it is one is like that laughter and tears like either laugh until you cry or crying so you laugh like I love that going back and forth, it's just such a thing that makes me feel so alive. And I think death is one of those times where if you give yourself permission to consciously grieve, then you're experiencing what it means to be human, in this very real way because that's what makes us human, our mortality is part of that. And it's actually in a way part of belonging, because you kind of said this early on, if we don't reckon with our traumas and with our pain and really heal. We can't really have a full sense of belonging because we're not being authentic. So, what is freedom? KaTania: The thing that just jumps out at me and this is my first thought is just the ability to be who you want to be. Do what you want to do live how you want to live without fear, without wondering what other people think or feel about you. I think it's just being who you are and living your truth. Whatever that may look like. I was recently watching her Facebook interview show with Taraji P. Henson, and she was interviewing three black transgender women, and it's just sad that they all have had to go through some of the most terrifying things ever. But freedom and the freedom to just be who they are. And again, live, live their truth, whatever that maybe you don't have to agree with it. You don't have to think it's right or wrong, but allow them to be who they are, allow them to be human beings first, that didn't feel comfortable in the skin and the body that they were in. So, again you do not have to agree with what I say or believe or how I look, but allow me to go about my day, and the ability to earn an income to go where I choose to go engage with people that I choose to engage with. And if you want to actually ask some questions and get to know me. Before you automatically judge me, because you don't know, you have no idea who I am, what I'm about. But if you're just looking at my outer first, then again, you're going to miss out on all this greatness on the inside. Arielle: Well first of all, for me freedom has to involve like what Michael says responsibility to like you can do be say everything, express yourself. As long as you're not harming anyone else in that expression. What if we were to acknowledge the sort of deepest layer of oneness right this concept of oneness that exists in all religions, on some level and in all ancient philosophies that there is this ultimate connecting spirit than all of the other parts of us that don't seem acceptable no matter from whatever vantage point you come, Whether that's Republican Democrat at this point or whether that's racist anti racist, all of these. It's almost like disenfranchise parts of ourselves. I don't know I think the mind makes it so easy to say, This is good, this is bad, this person's good this person's bad and I think that we're all a mix of so many things and until we can acknowledge the you know the shadow sides that we all have to add I always say if I were to meet the former president, I would thank him because I do, I credit, his bigotry and hate mongering and divisiveness with motivating me to stop being silent, and to stop being so comfortable and to stop ignoring everything that was wrong, my whole life in this country and world that I was just privileged enough to not have to dedicate myself to because it wasn't affecting me his accident and his illness. Mental illness that provoked in me, it inspired me to, to try to understand everyone better, not just the people that I find it easier to understand. If you're afraid of something and then I'm afraid of you, then how do we both feel this process. I also out of everything I'm about to say out of everything, you know that's bad something good happened. KaTania: And yes, the President, former president did allow a lot of people to see their neighborhoods, and where they stood. And what they believed in. So, once, like, a blind person once you know who you're the person who really doesn't like you, then it makes it easier. I myself have dealt with, you know, racism and once I know that you don't like me, it makes it easier for me to deal with you. I would prefer to know that you don't like me that you're smiling in my face and really having some ill will, just harbored in your heart for me. Arielle: Well, it might be better to know that somebody is racist or Anti-Semitic or whatever it is, but it doesn't hurt less, to know that. Oh no, it doesn't, Because it's so insane that we're in 2021. In a world where these are still hot topics that have been hundreds of years in the unconsciousness in the subconsciousness in the subterranean bones of people just deciding, I can't, I don't like the way my life isn't their fault, right, everyone else is, it's there, it's that it's women it's black people it's immigrants, it's, you know, I think when people are speaking hate very loud and screaming it and being violent. In a hateful way, what has to be the response to that is speaking love in a more loud and stronger and proud way, I think that's, that is the antidote not more hate, but more love is not the answer to the problem, or you don't want to lump that on, because then they feel like they're justified in what they're believing is, you know, you're, you're angry, and this is another reason why it perpetuates some stereotype already. So, no, it's turning the other cheek, it's it's really, you know, how can I give you a big hug because it seems like you need some love in your life, and it has nothing to do with me, it's just, in general, there's a lot of anger and hostility directed towards someone that has sometimes nothing to do with that person. It's just, I hate my life all together. And again, like you said, It's your fault. You came here, and that person took my job, and then we're doing affirmative action so now I see more of you walking around who's taking the job from another one of my times. And so, it is always going to be someone else's fault that's also a very, that's a scarcity model of reality, instead of realizing that there is enough actually in the modern time there is literally enough for every single one, there is enough water there is enough food there are enough resources there's enough love, there's enough, so it's like shifting from that, and it's it's it's a has to be a full on world consciousness shift to get to that place for it to be functional because clearly we are far from that because that's not the world we live in, but there actually is enough. And though as long as we keep that game of blame and shame and finger pointing and, and I think we all do that to some degree, just like it's easy for somebody to look at you and say here's a black woman I think that, therefore, that means this this and this and this. and here's a Jewish woman or here's a white woman and that means this this and this. If you don't take the time to get to know the individual, you're going to miss out all the time, every single time. And yet it's, you know, there's also like limitations, right, meaning there's time limits and there's, you know, COVID is such a strange, beautiful world because we both are isolated and can't connect but also have this deep deep human need to connect and so I think people are finding themselves maybe more aware of their neighbors, their literal direct neighbors I mean I you know I've said I have the philosophy that we're all neighbors, matter of where we live, because we all are interconnected and need each other and depend on. Gosh I think about like Flint Michigan that is still struggling with toxic water. And I know that affects me here. Yes, and I don't mean that in a selfish way like oh that affects me I mean, that is literally that disease that that horror that those children in Flint, Michigan are still not able to have clean water from their taps after so much time, that is not, not my problem. That seriously is my problem. And just because it's not in my actual neighborhood so we have to start with the small neighborhood where we live in maybe or the block or even our families, but then it does just that. So that was a part of my, you know, epigenetics and trauma that was passed down. And so I had a little bit of a more resistance probably. I've never seen the Sound of Music. Okay. Just giving you that. I've never seen that movie. I was just talking to someone about that today. And it's clearly a block that I have of not wanting to that. I can't like that I have a resistance to, I, you know, I know a lot, but I also have a wall with that. KaTania: But I think you just need a big hug. It's okay, really. But It's supposed to trickle and it's supposed to have a ripple effect I know that I listened to the TV show and it was probably even before COVID that people just don't know who their neighbor is that, again, sense of community, where you move in and someone brings a batch of cookies over or casserole. Now you're peeking out your window, and you're trying to figure out who they are, you’re avoiding the doorbell there's that funny. {Arielle} Italian comedian on Netflix, I forget his name, I know where he was like, it's like, what the doorbell was like in like when he was a kid it was like there's company and everyone's like running and getting the coffee cake and now it's like, get on the ground. The doorbell rang. Arielle: And he was working. So true. It's so sad and, you know, yes, I again I think COVID has examples heightened and found new ways of people realizing no this is an optional we don't, if there was any one time where we really all were in the same boat, Last year was it. Well I love somebody said, because in some one of the workshops or something, I went to, somebody said, we may not be in the same boat, we're on the same water, which I love that, because I do think there's a variety of experiences, obviously based on privilege and where you live. The resources not definitely… KaTania: I will say that we're all in the same water, whether you run a dinghy, or whether you are not like yachts, or you can afford a cruise liner. And I will say that, even in walking my dog, because I, you got to see so many more people walking. I was. Where are these people come from, but everyone's working from home. So, this was their time to get some fresh air, and, you know, turn over a new leaf and just getting out, and people were speaking. I don't see nearly half of these people now, but the few that I did, I still speak to, we're all human, human refers to human beings we're all in this planet together, whether we like it or not, and if I see you that way first, then it's hard to be other again. My parents could have raised me to hate all white people and distrust all white people and think that they are the worst of the worst, just based on the fact that they were modern day slaves in 1930s in Mississippi, they picked cotton lived on the white and property, and never had anything, of their own. And they always had to ask for something. My mom is the oldest of eight, so I know that they have all seen something, and her older sister and I have one right below her. We have very good conversations about just life in general, and she has, like, I've seen a lot. I've seen, way more than I care to, and she carries scars, by other on his talked about being sexually assaulted. When she was younger, she carries scars, but we are a loving family. And we might not always like each other, but we will kick everybody else's ask that folk with any one of us, at any given moment. And even though they too have seen some very very disheartening things and witness, really, really just, I was always taught that kindness goes further than anything else. And if a person's mean to you, that doesn't mean that you have this sent to their level. It's almost like the Michelle Obama. When they go low, we go high. I appreciate that, because I, I know that I would have missed out on a lot of opportunities. If I carried that with me, and I'm glad that they loved me enough to allow me to grow and develop and to become who I was going to be without adding hatred and bigotry into everything else that's a part of my DNA. Arielle: And that, that is the mystery and the beauty. I think that the lose so many. Let's say colonizers, that somebody could be treated or oppressed or beaten down or just completely intentionally diminished and treated as subhuman for so many decades, and that that person could have the capacity for love and empathy still towards them right that is the biggest mystery I think to the colonizer mentality, that the act of dehumanizing someone does not actually change their humanity. And so, to me, one of the biggest hurdles we have to face and one of my goals in all the work I do is to just shine a light on that, it didn't work, colonization, you know may work on the material level, it may work in the cat in the money system and the cost economics of it and the opportunity cost right, but from a human deepest level of who we are as humanity. It doesn't work because you can't force me to hate you, you can, and you can't change my heart at all. KaTania: I think also too, whether you know, on some level, that you have tried to break the spirit of someone else, and they do show you kindness, and they can show you compassion and empathy, if you were laying there bleeding would they help you do you are you so afraid, or unwilling to allow them in if they offered help to you. Are you afraid that at some point? I have joked and I think it's a joke really, I think that sometimes a white person's greatest fear, really, is there going to get what's coming to them on another level, and it's going to be where the one thing that they value the most will be the thing that they lose, and hearing people talk about race wars and things of that sort, nature, it may not be what they think it is, or they may be afraid of what the outcome may really really look like, because, you know, during slavery, you didn't have a choice, but things are not at that level anymore. So, I, I also really think that because our spirit hasn't been 100% broken. Yes, we are things about the black community that is definitely broken, and that's definitely not fair and has not ever been fair and the Plainfield has never been even, but we're survivor during so many recessions, and this is really not funny, right, people will always say, we'll have to worry about black people killing themselves, because (a) we're used to struggling. So, during a recession. This is just, no big deal. Now, those that were killing themselves and committing suicide, were a white man who had a boat, and a cottage and jet skis and all this other stuff that black people don't have any way so we didn't have to worry too much about that whereas white people have a whole lot more to lose than we do during a recession. Arielle: So, the issues were not new. No, and the, the structures that support the issues of a racist society are not new, and you do have to choose. And I love Maia, you know, constantly talking to me about this, and she's, you know it's very hard for a child slide and I think and it's an adult to to grasp this concept and I love from how to be an anti-racist that book, which is it's not about a fixed identity it's not saying, I'm not racist I'm, I am this always I am this always, in every moment. It's reckoning with, how is your racism showing up because we are all programmed to be racist. And that is actually irrelevant of your race, it's just we live in a racist society, so we're categorized by race, just like we live in a misogynistic society we're cat categories by gender are categorized by class so all of those nuances and identity and being those ways in which we measure ourselves against one another, and love ourselves or hate ourselves or love each other hate each other based on those identities and so there are. There's a lot to reckon with. And there's a lot to acknowledge and there's a lot to heal. And I love you and I love being able to have these conversations openly with you and I love that we got to share this one conversation with whoever's listening to this, I hope that I have some people in mind that I think will be listening but I hope that we reach more people and, you know, gosh, I have to admit, like it's every time I have a conversation like this there's a part of me that is terrified because it's won't because it's being recorded. No, because it's also because it's vulnerable because it's, I might say the wrong thing, I probably did say several wrong things, you know I probably, I make mistakes and I, I know that what I have to be willing to do is to say the wrong thing, and mess up, and make mistakes, and acknowledge my ignorance. I mean that's the biggest. My favorite tarot card is the fool. Why isn't fool is the one who knows that they know nothing. KaTania: Well, and I will also say that when we did our Facebook Live. Last year, I am way more comfortable. This particular time in talking to you. And I think it's just because we've had so many different conversations over the past year, and maybe even more specifically during the last like six months or so, where so much has happened, and I hope that this does resonate with whoever listens and hopefully that person will share it with someone else and so on and so forth, but these are conversations that all of us should be having in some way or another. I appreciate the fact that my white friends and I had some very interesting conversations last year after George Floyd, and everything else that had happened that you know they, they see me as a person. First of all, and when my friends call me and say, I'm calling to see how you are doing, how you are feeling. This wasn't the Hey how's it going, this was a deeper conversation about my spirit my soul being affected by what had happened so it's also allowing them to have the space to, to ask questions of me about anything Arielle: That's built on the trust of the relationship you've had long term, what not to say, you know, there's been a lot of I've read a lot and we've talked about this too. That's not to say call up the black woman you know from, you know, one time that you met in the grocery store to ask her how to deal with being racist like That's not the thing to do people like you don't do that if you have a real, authentic relationship with somebody who is, you know, in a different representative of a different community for you right that is not in your same bubble or whatever that is, and you have an authentic relationship, then you have the ability to say, Hey, can I ask you about this, not assuming I'm just saying that because there are people who don't know that but you can. KaTania: Yes, that's true. As I stated before, Jamal, that you used to see at your office that you may have lunch with before COVID, Is, if he's your only black friend. He's not your friend. So, let's just keep that in mind, I need everyone to understand that that's not how this works. If you've never been to Jamal's house and Jamal has never been to your house, then. No, he's not your friend. He is your acquaintance. He's your coworkers, he’s your colleague, friends do more than just like have lunch every day at one to two, and then if you don't see each other until 8am The next day, And if you never asked him really. How are you? How's your day? You know have some really deep genuine conversations. Arielle: And on that note, I think we want to inspire people to have these real connections and conversations and community and develop deep friendships with people that may look or sound or act or seem different, but we all want to be seen as individuals, all the time, all the time. Thank you. I appreciate you and I'm so excited for this podcast to grow and continue and to sparkle. This was just the beginning! KaTania: Just the beginning. Yay! ­[music]

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